“Epistemology issues” (8)

After reading your respons concerning the role of sensation in obtaining knowledge ,is it correct if I called your epistemics position as common-sense realism ?

I have no idea. You would have to define “common-sense realism” and then logically demonstrate that it is in error using the Scriptures.

==If I understand you correctly ,then what you said about the role of the LOGOS in producing knowledge in human mind is limited ONLY to the spiritual-saving kowledge of the true gospel ,==

Do you equate the LIGHT of the LOGOS (John 1:4-5, 9) with the “Spirit of Christ” (Romans 8:8-10), the LIGHT of the gospel (2 Cor. 4:6), or “the Spirit of His Son” (Galatians 4:6)?

Does the Spirit of Christ produce knowledge of mathematics in the mind of the unregenerate, or does the Spirit of Christ (and hence, the LOGOS) have a *specific role* in illuminating the minds of the regenerate elect with gospel truth?

==but the real question is this : what about the so-called human-discovered knowledge in every fields of scientific investigations outside scripture ,did they discover that knowledge by the effort of themselves alone or by the active-causative power of the LOGOS in their mind ?==

Let’s grant that the knowledge that water is composed of 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom is “discovered” by scientific investigation. Did they “discover” that knowledge “by the effort of themselves alone”? Obviously not, since God is the One who determines and controls their thoughts and actions (cf. Psalm 105:25; Proverbs 21:1; Isaiah 10:5-15; Acts 17:25-28). Take a couple of examples from Scripture:

“And Absalom and all the men of Israel said, The counsel of Hushai the Archite is better than the counsel of Ahithophel. And Jehovah had ordained to break down the good counsel of Ahithophel, for the sake of bringing the evil of Jehovah to Absalom” (2 Samuel 17:14).

Certainly God in His providence displays “the active-causative power” of His wrath (cf. Romans 9:17, 22) by revealing and breaking down counsel in order to destroy Absalom. But since I see that the *specific role* of the LOGOS (the Spirit of Christ) in the Scriptures is to reveal the glory of Christ, I would not say that unregenerate men who “come up with” a shrewd war-plan have been “enlightened” by the LOGOS since that would imply that they are regenerate.

“And he said, Then hear the Word of Jehovah: I have seen Jehovah sitting on His throne, and all the host of the heavens standing on His right and His left. And Jehovah said, Who shall entice Ahab the king of Israel, and he shall go and fall in Ramoth-gilead? And saying, this one said one thing, and saying, this one said one thing. And a spirit went out and stood before Jehovah, and said, I will entice him. And Jehovah said, With what? And he said, I will go out and become a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said, You shall entice, and also, you are able. Go out and do so. And now, behold, Jehovah has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. And Jehovah has spoken evil against you” (2 Chronicles 18:18-22).

The prophets of Ahab certainly did not “discover that knowledge by the effort of themselves alone,” but by the active-causative power of God that made them succumb to the evil enticement of the lying spirit. From Scripture, I see the “active-causative power of the LOGOS” in the minds of men as *very specific*:

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men;
John 1:4

and the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.
John 1:5

He came for a witness, that he might witness concerning the Light, that all might believe through Him.
John 1:7

He was not that Light, but that he might witness concerning the Light.
John 1:8

He was the true Light; He enlightens every man coming into the world.
John 1:9

And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness more than the Light, for their works were evil.
John 3:19

For everyone practicing wickedness hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, that his works may not be exposed.
John 3:20

But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.
John 3:21

Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, I am the Light of the world. The one following Me will in no way walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.
John 8:12

While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.
John 9:5

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble because he sees the light of the world.
John 11:9

But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles because the light is not in him.
John 11:10

Then Jesus said to them, Yet a little while the Light is with you. Walk while you have the Light, that darkness not overtake you. And the one walking in the darkness does not know where he is going.
John 12:35

While you have the Light, believe into the Light, that you may become sons of Light. Jesus spoke these things, and going away He was hidden from them.
John 12:36

I have come as a Light to the world, that everyone who believes into Me may not remain in the darkness.
John 12:46

Bold emphasis above is mine.

==I also wonder if there is any human-DISCOVERED truth or that all truth is REVEALED by God Himself even in secular fields to unbelievers as pleases Him & to whom He will revealed that truth is simply based on His own sovereign choice ..==

There cannot be any “human-discovered” truths apart from God any more than there can be human movement apart from God’s active and controlling sovereignty. Certainly God revealed such truth regarding the light bulb to Thomas Edison for the benefit of His elect (Romans 8:28); but I think that is a far cry from saying that the mind of Edison was “illumined” by Spirit of Christ (the LOGOS) who dwells only in the regenerate. So, of course, the knowledge revealed to Edison was based on His own sovereign choice.

“With Him is strength and sound wisdom; the deceived and the deceiver are His. He causes wise men to go stripped; and He makes judges fools. He loosens the bonds of kings, and He binds their loins with a girdle; making priests walk away stripped; and He overthrows the mighty; turning aside the lip of the trusted men; and He takes away the reason of the aged. He pours scorn on nobles, and He loosens the girdle of the mighty; revealing deep things out of darkness; and He brings the shadow of death to light. He gives greatness to the nations, and He destroys them; spreading out the nations, and He leads them out. He takes away the heart of the heads of the people of the land; and He causes them to wander in a waste in which is no path. They grope in the dark, and there is no light; and He makes them stagger like a drunkard” (Job 12:16-25).

Awesome quote from the book of Job.

==And I think there is a parallel here between common-sense & free-will :==

There may or may not be a parallel, depending on your definition of “common-sense.” IF (a big “IF”) you have accurately labeled my view as “common sense,” then to assert an alleged parallel with free-will is a non sequitur.

==all unregenerated-sinners believed they have a powerfull freewill to choose their own destiny ,but the truth is that their will are in spiritual bondage to sin’s tyranny & can not possibly resist the active-causative power of God in their daily life ,so their ideas of freewill is actually false because they deliberately contradicts the scriptural doctrine of the absolute sovereignty of God working in all things without exception ..==

Okay.

==Now if the same unregenerated-sinners were asked about how did they obtained knowledge [if they still believed there is something called knowledge] ,I am certain that all of them without exception will answer definitely that through their sensation they could obtaining knowledge with certainty in their daily life & also in their philosophical wordview [as exemplified in the empirical tradition in western philosophy history] ..==

You are assuming that all unregenerate sinners that believe in free-will are empiricists. I do not know enough about the various epistemological views of free-willers to affirm or deny this claim. What I do know is that not all who acknowledge that some knowledge is conveyed through the senses are part of the “empirical tradition in western philosophy history.”

==So my conclusion is this : in your theology proper & soteriology you are always consistent with scripture ,but in epistemology you are suddenly “allowing” a human being [even the unregenerated-sinners] to obtaining/achieving the truth/knowledge by/through their fallible human sensation ,==

You have not demonstrated my alleged inconsistency. Do you mean “obtaining/achieving the truth/knowledge by/through their fallible human sensation” “by the effort of themselves alone,” or “by the active-causative power of God in their mind”?

But HOW do you even know what I wrote, David? And HOW do you know you are reading the Bible? When you are reading a sentence in the Bible printed with ink with your physical eyes, do you KNOW infallibly that you are actually reading the Bible?

==so my question still remained : what is the DECISIVE role of the LOGOS in actively & effectually causing human mind in knowing truth in EVERY fields of study ,not just limited to saving knowledge only ..==

Hopefully what I have written above clears things up.

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