James White mentioned Marc Carpenter in his July 2, 2009 “Dividing Line” podcast. One caller had inquired about the spiritual state of those who hold to the absolute healing and prosperity gospel heresies. Here’s a transcript of part of it (with Marc’s comments afterwards):
Caller: If they were truly of the elect, wouldn’t God at some point bring them to a clearer understanding of Scripture?
James White (JW): Well, uh, you have to be really careful.
Caller: …I’m not accusing anybody…
JW: I know, I know…
Caller: It’s something that I just wrestle with…these guys are so right on almost everything…
JW: Yeah. Yeah.
Caller: …then you think, well, they believe in absolute healing…they believe in some crazy doctrines…and I think man, if they were really Christians wouldn’t the Holy Spirit at some point…
JW: Well we…you got to be really careful at that point…because that’s the…that is the road that leads directly into hypercalvinism and uh…
Caller: What does that mean? Whattaya mean hypercalvinism?
JW: A hypercalvinist is primarily a person who…it’s a combination of things uh…but primarily they don’t believe in the propriety or necessity of the proclamation of the gospel and they also go so far as to basically say that uhh…all non-Calvinist…Arminians uh are not saved and that they’re going to be going to hell in essence because they got a false gospel…I’m thinking of uh…what’s the guy’s name? Oh…Marc…Carpenter. Marc Carpenter, uhh, is uh a type of person that ends up drawing the circle so small that you’d have to stand on one foot to stay inside it yourself so—
Caller: Right, right.
JW: So, you have to be careful about the perfection of knowledge, uh, theory, that in essence says, ‘well…you need to have a perfect knowledge of the gospel to be saved or once you are saved you’ll eventually have a
perfection of knowledge’–none of us have…none of us ever do.
JW: And we have to leave it to the Spirit of God to determine where He is going to bring us in our journey of sanctification and knowledge in this life. And so you…
Caller: Do you think it’s feasible…you know that person could hold really absurd doctrines like absolute healing and…prosperity type stuff…well, they could be Christians, who knows?
JW: Well, you have to leave that kind of thing up to the Lord at that point…I will be very politically incorrect and point to that whole realm of things and say…the vast majority of these leaders who are…making buku bucks off of these, these people are clearly not Christians…they’re peddling the Word of God and are truly not regenerate…but what do you do with the…with the little grandmother who trusts Jesus to save her but she doesn’t want…to believe anybody would want to deceive her…if brother Billy Bob says this then brother Billy Bob must be right…You have to be careful along those lines.
Here’s James White again slandering me by calling me a hypercalvinist after saying that hypercalvinists “primarily…don’t believe in the propriety or necessity of the proclamation of the gospel.” I have confronted White several times about this slander (e.g., see http://www.outsidethecamp.org/jameswhite.htm), and yet he continues to spew it. As all of you who are familiar with Outside the Camp know, we forcefully and emphatically believe in the propriety and necessity of the proclamation of the gospel. And not only that, we believe that everyone without exception is commanded to repent and believe the gospel. We have even written against hypercalvinists (e.g., see “The Irrelevant Gospel” at: http://www.outsidethecamp.org/review52.htm).
The way White answered the caller shows his damnable inconsistency. Regarding whether or not those who hold to the absolute healing and prosperity gospel heresies, White would have the caller “leave that kind of thing up to the Lord at that point,” yet he then hypocritically makes the judgment that “the vast majority of these leaders…are clearly not Christians.” What? Why are we not to “leave that kind of thing up to the Lord at that point” regarding the spiritual state of the “vast majority of these leaders”? Who is James White to say that they “are clearly not Christians”? Isn’t that on “the road that leads directly to hypercalvinism”? Isn’t that promoting a “perfection of knowledge” error? Is James White saying that the “vast majority of these leaders” need to have a “perfect knowledge of the gospel” in order for him to judge them to be Christians? This is similar to the hypocrisy I exposed in http://www.outsidethecamp.org/jameswhite.htm regarding what White says about Mormons. Why does James White not leave the spiritual state of Mormons up to the Lord? In saying that all Mormons are unregenerate, isn’t he advocating a “perfection of knowledge theory”? White even said,
“It is a canard to raise ‘my approval of a person’s theological accuracy.’ It is a matter of whether God uses the gospel and whether He saves people in false worship, false faith, and does not, in fact, impart His truth through His Spirit’s renewing of the mind and the ministry of the Spirit-enlightened Word. Are we truly to believe that God has chosen to exercise His elective grace in direct contradiction to His stated purposes in glorifying Himself through the creation of a special people in Jesus Christ who know Him savingly? That is the question.”
Of course it is! Yet if I say the same thing, I’m a hypercalvinist who holds to a “perfection of knowledge” theory. Oh the hypocrisy!